tv Bulls and Bears FOX News June 16, 2012 7:00am-7:30am PDT
they are tall. welcome back, we're back with edens enl. you played with ras car flats and tonight again in boston, mass. >> you've got to come out and see us. >> tweeted out there, itunes or the amazon store, join us for the after the show, show. >> bracing for greece and the countdown for sunday's election close ins, the fear that chaos will break out and a leader who wants to break out of the eu. if the vote goes that way will a massive financial meltdown be on the way. i'm lori roth in for brenda buttner for bulls and bears. tobin smith, jonas max ferris, gary b smith along with todd shown berger and susan. todd, start with your worries. >> absolutely, tell you, laurie, this vote is not going the way that we, wall street,
main street, anybody around the globe wants to hear, this is going to be a horrific moment not just for the united states economy, but everybody in main street, right here, usa has to be vitally concerned with what takes place with greece tomorrow. >> do you think the u.s. will see the impact of the the vote. >> zero. let's look at-- (laughter) >> i hate to burst todd's bubble, but we've had a million horrible greek moments the last two years, three years, as far as i know. look, jamie dimon said the impact of a greek default, if it goes that way, on our financial system, we'd be zero. i take his word for it. but even closer to home, are people-- let's just say they elect this government, default, pull out of the euro and all the worst thing that could happen. are people going to buy any less ipads or stop going to mcdonald's? heck, they're going to keep going to mcdonald's in greece only way with drachmas, no
impact, nothing to worry about. >> let me send this over to susan, mcdonald's, coca-cola, nike. they're likely to rein in if there's more turmoil in europe, what do you think? >> it's important to keep it in perspective. so, the u.s. economy, you'll actually with gary, the u.s. economy is not driven by exports. and we only export 10% of our-- gdp to 10% of exports. and versus consumption driven consumption and demand. the percentage that comes from europe and great britain is only like 2%. jonas, we haven't heard from him yet. >> these are great points for people who are rational. in a panic, don't care about the exports, the last few collapses of country and russia, soviet union defaulted on a little bit of debt, that was a big deal on the financial markets and the economy. and i believe thought it was a
default on some debt. it doesn't take a lot to cause a worldwide panics we've written off greece and it would have to spread to other countries. the u.s. economy is weak, not in a reception, but it's weak, we can't take the entire european euro area and go into a deep, deep recession, versus the mild recession they're in. ne could hurt america. >> and you see the pictures of the turmoil and the unrest in greece and it's spreading around europe. and here in the u.s., we're looking at that and sentiment drives the market. >> sure, absolutely. not just, the behavior. and we saw it fell down 2/10 of 1%, and we saw starbucks coming out and obviously, companies that have european exposure, and serious problems and you know, we're having a bank run in greece, that's clear. that's a panic, the next things that are going to happen. there's going to be a panic, i guess, my friend todd here is a sooth sayer and he knows that the vote is going to go against europe, but let's
assume todd the sooth sayer is wrong. and stilling, it doesn't solve any of the problem. what americans are seeing, their level of uncertainty compounded by this other country called europe debt that they understand is going to have real problems and they're sitting on their hands more, they're stopping behaviors that they were doing and gary, that is a psychological point and we're seeing it now. you can't deny the numbers. >> toby, toby, let me explain to you guys weeks' back to 2008 and this is what's going to happen. you guys are actually making out greece as if it's some type of a small problem. it's a huge problem. >> it is, similar effect-- >> it's maryland, for crying out loud. >> you guys are looking at the size of the country and that's it. let me tell you the number one customer for china right now is europe, europe goes down and china is not there to buy our treasuries. >> what about this perspective, guys, the wall of worry, let's get susan in on this one. you mentioned uncertainly, not knowing the next step. we've been following the european sovereign debt crisis
for years now, this is a crucial vote this weekend. susan, what do you think if we get certainty about what's going to happen with europe, maybe you disagree with what really is there now, but we'll get a little more clarity and that's got to help sentiment and the markets for the u.s. >> i absolutely think it will help and look, the biggest problem is not the direct economic impact it's the fear and uncertainty. i don't disagree he with the psychology of the markets. you can talk the markets down. what's happening, people are putting so much pressure going on in greece right now. people feel like it's a make or break moment. i feel like in general. markets like certainty and if we have a little bit of certainty of what is going to happen with greece going forward. it starts could cause some fears and one other point that's important. the european central banks show there's a push to back up liquidity. if you get into a liquidity crisis then you get into a real crisis, what happens
monday. >> soothsayer todd, down for an about a minute. using gary's old line. and you'll here, da da, da da, and oeg, they'll be in making like the market cap looking like a little lemonade stand for crying out loud. >> can i make a point about this whole fear of uncertainty. first of all, look, jonas makes a good point, perception is everything. unfortunately, if you walked out there to 6th avenue and asked the average person he'd say there has been another important vote? haven't they had 270 important votes? haven't they defaulted already? the average person out there is going to say, huh? greece? haven't we been through that 900 times, like rocky 8 for crying out loud. we've done it, we've been there. >> gary, i will tell you this, as the euro goes down, everything goes. you'll see about 8 million greek vacations booked on monday because the price is going be to be lower than going to new jersey for crying
out loud. >> so you're saying that that could be a benefit, huh, we'll want to take greek vacations, cheaper euro, but what if the drachma comes into play? what will that do to the dollar, strengthen the dollar and weigh on the stock market and that's occurred-- >> and so little currency that's going to say 100 drachmas on it and sell for 50 drachmas, that's going to be-- >> toby, okay, take mcdonald's, you brought it up everything. 40% of theirs comes from-- >> euro implodes, the 401(k)'s are down and brought the rest of the market down. gary b, you've got to agree with me. >> if the vote on monday goes the wrong way, everybody at mcdonald's, that's it, no cheeseburger, stop buying fries, forget it. >> exactly. only one 16 ounce drink. >> super size for sure. >> how will the u.s. slow down happen if greece does leave the euro monetary union.
>> it will unravel badly and cause they are reception. it's not the consumer, the consumer going to mcdonald's, they he start with investors and big money and the market, trying to get out of it 24 hours and that leads to collapses in countries. and the consumer in greece is not the problem, dot the debt spiral and 'caused recession. in those countries to drag us down with it. >> where the assets are coming, the assets are coming here. >> the smart money is-- >> and guys, i'm telling you. >> let her finish her point. >> we're safe haven, the place of quality is coming to us. >> it's benefitting for us in the long run that greece falls apart and-- >> has nothing to do with greece, i'm sorry, todd. >> it's smart money, salivating at this. this market is going to plummet on monday. >> oh, my gosh, we've got a love-- >> and all right, well, go to the bar another time,
everybody. coming up, u.s. senators grilling jp morgan's ceo, not one question about the 4 trillion dollar public pension time bomb his firm discovered. well, neil and his gang are asking questions, that's in a few minutes, but up next here, president obama deciding to let hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants stay and legally work in america. now, someone here is saying he just put any chance of a jobs recovery on hold. [ male announcer ] how do you trade? with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor, right at your fingertips. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. try our easy-to-use scottrader streaming quotes. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.
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feelin' real good! [ engine revs ] boat protection people love. now, that's progressive. call or click today. >> good morning, everyone, live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. new this morning, the united nations making a major decision in syria suspending its mission because of the escalating violence. the u.n. pulling back its observer, who will no longer be conducting the patrols for safety concerns, but they will stay in their locations until further notice. the u.s. and other countries continue to debate whether
they must intervene. in an attempt to stop the long and ongoing bloodshed. in washington, attorney general eric holder may now avoid a contempt of congress vote. congressman darrell issa saying he's willing to postpone the vote against holder if the justice department turns over additional records in the fast and furious investigation. the operation run by the atf allowing illegal gun purchases into mexico. i'm jamie colby, more headlines 30 minutes away. i'll send you back now to bulls and bears. >> from you're deported to you're hired. president obama halting deportation up to 800,000 younger illegal immigrants and allowing them to apply for work visas, saying it's only fair to let people work here brought her illegally by their parents. you're saying it's a good news for the economy. >> economics, scheduled to be deported 800,000 jobs, younger
people and clearly we have in some areas, 30% unemployment for our younger people. i hate to be, the now the bad guy here, but come on. i don't know whether it's fair or not, but our american citizens who are american citizens, are out of jobs. let's do the right thing and make sure they get the jobs. >> gary b, something tells me you might disagree with our friend toby. >> yes, i guess the it's the day for me to be on the side of the left. but technically-- >> first of all, there's no link between immigration and unemployment at any level. in fact, immigration has been declining for the last few years, while our unemployment rate has been going up. so, the link there is, well, there is no link and the reason is, because, these immigrants take jobs basically that we don't want. they have a high work ethic. they actually, because the average age of the immigrant, ill lee or the not, is about 28, they're helping to keep our social security afloat by paying into it while our elderly take out.
immigration is good. if you believe in free trade it's the same side of the coin, it lowers labor costs. >> it's a good thing. todd, do you think it will help the housing market? >> facing facts, they will be able to lift freely and this is not, obviously, the path to citizenship, however, moving forward it can only help them. they're living in homes and help the housing sector, a great move for the economy. >> susan, where do you stand on things? do you think it's a good idea to let 800,000 illegal immigrants obtain work visas. >> absolutely, they're working in the economy right now, and brought here under means that were not their own and one of the big advocates has been jose antonio vargas, a pulitzer prize winning journalist, he's contributing. if you think the more that people can come out from the shadows, and can get certified and skilled training and earn more work, and become more productive members of the economy, it's absolutely a win. >> all right.
jonas, here is an idea though for you. is it precedent setting. the granting in the future amnesty, does it pressure our services, our schools, our hospitals and the city budget that are already in crisis under more duress? >> the answer is yes, jonas. >> and let you weigh in in a second. >> and, depends how many rights you have. and rights to society. but (laughter) >> i'll say that, let's get away from the citizenship. if you have a supply of labor by executive overnight. you're going to raise the unemployment rate, there's no way around that. so, profits, yes, lower wages, sure, in the short run with the rate, you'll see it higher when you increase the supply of labor, it's economics. >> out of the 800,000, let's also face the fact that many of them, according to all studies, gary, i have to use the purchase and studies, won't bite my head off. they're not working in our
economy, the economy, jound ground and paid in cash and they're taking jobs and, not welfare, gary, this is cash on cash cash type employment. so, bringing them up displaces more workers and on a relative basis it's unfair to the people that are here. >> and the tax rolls, look, this can only be seen as a positive and i know what jonas is saying, yes, it will increase the overall participation right rate, amount of people looking for work and they're working and the guys we talk about shovel ready jobs and the guy that-- >> americans could be. >> an a move for the government to this during an amount of unemployment. >> a meaningful improvement in our stressed out entitlement program. and thanks for that one. a new group is pushing to unionize the unemployed. but could this push actually
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quote him. therefore, much union activity is concerned with rationing the available jobs among job seekers and union members get higher pay because they allow fewer jobs to exist. that's what a cartel does and the whole idea here, by definition, it would not help jobs, okay? don't take it from me, take it from milty. >> jonas, do you agree or a different perspective on things? >> they're the anti-union employee and-- >> and that's such a-- >> another thing i want to say, look, in general, the one thing unemployed have going for them is their relative low cost compared to union labor and as the work of employers too hire somebody and part-time worker, it doesn't get hired and harder to hire, in fact, if there's an organization, and the unemployed were in a union they might get hired even faster. >> i'm going to take this and block that answer. >> part of the union idea,
gary b, they'll be connected on social sites and they can share word of mouth, you know, here say about job openings or different ideas? and sounds like some benefit to it. >> lori, in all due respect to you, doesn't it sound like some sort of "monty python" skit or something? should be on "saturday night live," we're unionizing the unemployment, as a threat we're going to not work. okay. and how are we going to pay the union dues? (laughter) >> toby had it right and even larry summers worked in the obama administration, unionization leads to higher unemployment rate. first of all, it's silly, but even if it has an effect, it's a negative effect as toby said. >> you think it's going to take the incentive away from the unemployed to hit the pavement. >> you have to look at what they're doing. what they're looking to do is
mobilize political movements to get people to push to get congress and the president to pass jobs legislation, get more construction jobs and infrastructure building, which is not a bad thing for the economy. so, in that sense, helping people to organize, to push for more jobs is a good thing. what i think would be really interesting for a group like this to provide a way for people to figure out health care. that's what people unemployed need the most, what do you do? >> unemployed, 99 weeks of extended benefits, food stamps, in some states you can get cash and health care, look, we're giving these people enough as it is. you want to teach new skills, i can get behind that kind of a union or a club or something, but networking with unemployed networking with other unemployed is not going to get you a job anywhere. >> and shownberger makes a point. >> and people are losing unemployment checks sooner than they were anticipating.
>> where do the jobs come from? those jobs come from the private sector, from investment, from capital. we've proven the last 60 years that the unionized approach has dropped jobs and dropped, raised some prices somewhere where dropped jobs. and the argument doesn't-- >> and the union is kind of a lost after-- >> unionization has been dropping since the '70s. we don't need unions anymore. getting back to todd as point. i want to know what kind of club they're going to be in the unemployed club shall the one that maybe my younger daughter might want to join, she's unemployed right now. >> get a facebook page. the unions in the 30's prevented child labor. >> that's a great point, gary b. thanks to suzanne for joining
>> predictions, gary b. we'll begin with you. >> lori, on monday todd will be sleeping in a shelter and fxe, up by january. >> no, near 52 week low. >> what's your prediction, todd. >> greece election is causing me to drink, buying jack daniels and up 30% by december. >> toby, never drag you away from the bar. (laughter) >> i agree with that, i don't like his prediction, overpriced. >> all right, jonas, your prediction for us. >> the price is up almost 8% and the solution, eat more chicken tacos and people at yum brands, 20% in a year. >> gary b, fast food. >> i like fast good, don't like this stock, bear.